tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36762068.post4405502351552751358..comments2023-10-22T05:51:24.101-04:00Comments on Phasing Grace | Social Architectures and Virtual Worlds: My Virtual World IdealGrace McDunnoughâ„¢http://www.blogger.com/profile/10573463430195713363noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36762068.post-90561316623672957182010-08-28T01:55:38.683-04:002010-08-28T01:55:38.683-04:00Oh boy, my response is not going to make people ha...Oh boy, my response is not going to make people happy. I think the negativity comes from the fact that virtual spaces attract lots of involutional people. The thing about dealing with - for example - people with mood disorders? - is that you simply can't engage them by the content of what they say. They will, in a clumsy paraphrase of Salome's words - suck you into their whirlpool of unhappiness, and hook you up to their own personal lifetime supply. So what you need to do is to step back one frame of reference, and look at them clinically. Is this the person's disorder speaking? <br /><br />Oh - I know. How dare I? Well - c'mon. It's not true? That's not to say that mood disorder folks can't be wonderfuly productive - of course they can. But collect enough of them in one place, and you *will* be sunk like a stone. <br /><br />The other thing: I'm of enough of an age to have seen "disillusionment" set in after many and many a social movement. This has been, for example, endemic in the American Buddhist movement. I've come to think of this as analogous to "infatuation vs love" - a disillusionment is the busting of an infatuation. A love, built on something more solid - doesn't break or waste away under adversity. I happen to know this is true. <br /><br />Lighten up, y'all. It'll sort out.Eveline Nixdorfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36762068.post-68846737750444124532010-08-23T11:46:56.380-04:002010-08-23T11:46:56.380-04:00I saw Botgirl saying something similar about the p...I saw Botgirl saying something similar about the people in the Emerald drama and I think I see now what's going on. I haven't been watching the forums on Emerald but I can imagine.<br /><br />The thing is that SL is in a crisis, the biggest crisis I've seen since I joined. I don't mean only Emerald, I mean the whole thing. It has been simmering for a while but it has come to a boil with the LL layoffs and the closure of projects. People ARE disappointed and disillusioned. It's normal and I am so myself. Now, people behavior in a group is like in one of those Bell curves and you will have some people in both extremes and only the median will move one way or the other. It's moving to the negative side right now. And it is normal that some of the disillusioned people are going to become "uncivilized". Yes, Salome, I have seen THAT before.<br /><br />The difference between me and you is that I see the crisis and you see just a manifestation of the crisis. You see people who stand in the way of moving forward and who are making the crisis only bigger. I still see just a crisis that is following its normal course, which sometimes is like a snowball.<br /><br />Staying positive may prolong the situation but it's not going to solve the root problem. And the problem is not with us, the users, it sits squarely with LL, so it is out of our control anyway. And no, we are not "at fault" if the crisis doesn't get resolved because we didn't explain well enough.<br /><br />I'm not being a defeatist, I am being realistic and pragmatic. That works well for me because I am disillusioned but I am not hurting like you do.Lem Skallhttp://lemskall.myopenid.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36762068.post-40190929304603953262010-08-23T05:51:52.712-04:002010-08-23T05:51:52.712-04:00Lem, I think it's wonderful that someone like ...Lem, I think it's wonderful that someone like yourself has managed to be charmed enough in life and SL to not encounter these people on a regular basis. But I promise you, there are more of them than your personal statistics lead you to believe and most of us do absolutely nothing to invite their bile being thrust at us over and over and over except exist and pose questions and investigate the intellectual conversations of our environment. They exist IRL, on message boards, in SL, in business, and in every other walk of life. They bank on the good nature of the rest of us being intellectually tolerant, inviting dissenting voices, and given that inch, they take ten thousand miles. <br /><br />I'm sure if you've never had to deal with them, it just sounds like I'm describing some crazy alien abduction theory. But those of us who have to mount up and deal with this kind of crazy on a regular basis understand that it's an actual sort of war. Of wills. Of intellectual integrity. Of reason.<br /><br />If you can't see "I refuse to allow vile people to ruin my ideal" as a sentiment of power and hope, then I don't think you can I can agree on what those words mean. Frankly, it's more than just power and hope, it's plain self-defense in the face of people who continue to try and knock everything around them down.<br /><br />Or you can continue to view it as a manifesto against criticism. But I think it's pretty clear that's not what's happening here. There are some things in the world that simply shouldn't be tolerated and sometimes it's good to remind ourselves of that.Salome Strangelovehttp://twitter.com/salstrangenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36762068.post-72555292735178130162010-08-22T23:13:13.061-04:002010-08-22T23:13:13.061-04:00Synchronicity: I happen to be re-reading one of m...Synchronicity: I happen to be re-reading one of my favorite books of cultural history, <i>The Discoverers</i> by Daniel J. Boorstin (late Librarian of Congress, among other achievements). In it, as you would expect, is a great deal of narrative about The Enlightenment -- that is, the first one -- and as the narrative moves forward in time to approach our own day, I find myself wondering again, as I do often, "When did we lose that spirit -- and more importantly, why?" The embedded video suggests a way to revive and carry it forward, and for that alone I'm grateful to Grace.<br /><br />As for what else I have seen in the comments here, I cannot but agree with Salome. "Just gathering the energy to rise above and not engage them can be exhausting," but rise we must. We are not obligated to play with the bullies. We have better things to spend our time thinking about, doing, and helping each other with.Lalo Tellinghttp://twitter.com/Lalo_Tnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36762068.post-10120467393850400572010-08-22T23:08:04.095-04:002010-08-22T23:08:04.095-04:00Salome, there is only one person I know of in SL t...Salome, there is only one person I know of in SL that really fits your description: Prok. One exception does not warrant an open criticism aimed at SL as a whole. Ok, maybe I am just lucky for not knowing more people like that but it still means something statistically. And I still stand by what I said, that particular statement is not a "sentiment of empowerment and hope". The rest of the post maybe, but not that statement.Lem Skallhttp://lemskall.myopenid.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36762068.post-78772105015149473102010-08-22T22:59:31.604-04:002010-08-22T22:59:31.604-04:00Grace, I'm glad you're not including me. ...Grace, I'm glad you're not including me. I didn't really take it personally but I had some doubts. Most of all though, I was just trying to make the point of what happens when your criticism is left so open.<br /><br />It would have been ok if you would have just expressed your feelings but that statement was not one of feelings. It was one of opinions and judgmental ones as such. Inflammatory even. Anyway, the kind of statements that can make others feel the same frustration and disappointment that you feel. Keep in mind also that what you see as nastiness and vitriol probably comes from similar frustrations and disappointments.Lem Skallhttp://lemskall.myopenid.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36762068.post-73523363744435616792010-08-22T17:39:25.178-04:002010-08-22T17:39:25.178-04:00Lem, I can kind of see where you are coming from, ...Lem, I can kind of see where you are coming from, because for a moment I had the same defensive response to the statement you quoted when I first read it. Those of us who hold things to a higher standard have a history of being called the negative nanny goats because while the shiny happy people stand up and "rah rah" we often have to be the voice of reason. I can see why you feel the statement is negative and judgmental. However, I think if you step back and re-evaluate it, you'll see you took it wrong. I suspect (and only grace can clarify) that it is intended as a sentiment of empowerment and hope. <br /><br />But to get that, you have to look beyond the knee-jerk and realize that what Grace is expressing isn't an intolerance of constructive criticism or valuable feedback. It's a line in the sand of sorts against deliberately vile provocative nastiness which too many of us put up with in the name of "a fair hearing." <br /><br />There are people on the grid, some of them loud voices that get a lot of attention, and they don't offer constructive criticism or anything positive. They are nothing but a puppet show to highlight and champion the worst that human behavior has to offer. Having been bombarded by the most vile of all spoiled fashionista children and exposed to enough crazy cat lady flashcards, I can tell you from the bottom of my heart that these types are emotional vampires that will suck everything good out of any situation and salt the earth behind them. Just gathering the energy to rise above and not engage them can be exhausting. And the democratic fairness in all of us tries to uphold the tenant that everyone deserves a fair say. The problem is that these people do not maintain standards or follow any ethics. It's all about them, the attention they get, and the power rush they feel by provoking people into their games. If Hedda Gabler mated with Jack the Ripper and produced cyber-age offspring -- that's what I think Grace is addressing. Sad people with nothing to offer but spew on a relentless mission to be heard and engaged, no matter the cost to their fellows or their environment.<br /><br />Getting mired in these people is a no-win and it stalls progressive movement -- especially when they have apologists in the intellectual communities that justify their nonsense with comments like "well, so-and-so is not always wrong." Yes, broken clocks are right twice a day, too, but we don't go to them for a reliable time.<br /><br />Dreamers can still be realists. Making dreams come true and having ethics and ideals means that constructive criticism is not only good, but mandatory. I don't think Grace was implying a disregard for thoughtful, even stern, honest evaluation. <br /><br />I take this post as a simple challenge for people to fight for what they believe in a little harder. To reject the oh-so-easy habit of bitching and falling in line with the people who grumble loudest. To reject the drama and the exploitation intended to provoke hostility. <br /><br />Can we do it? Are there enough of us? Are we willing to focus on the ideal and abandon the MTV generation tug toward fulfillment of the moment drama?<br /><br />I don't know. I hope so. Because I've read what the "I hope you all die because you don't agree with me" people have to say. And I don't want to live or build or play in their worlds.Salome Strangelovehttp://twitter.com/salstrangenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36762068.post-62345272932417159862010-08-22T14:08:55.376-04:002010-08-22T14:08:55.376-04:00Thanks Lem. Those are my personal opinions and fee...Thanks Lem. Those are my personal opinions and feelings, they are based on my time, observations and my experiences. Maybe you see things differently; I respect and appreciate that but it does not negate my own perspective.<br /><br />As for people's motivations, I have little insight - the observation that people swing with a great force at things that appear unfamiliar is not attributing motive - it's my personal observation based on watching it happen over and over again.<br /><br />I've always taken your criticisms of me, my ideals and now my courage to say openly what I am thinking constructively. I've engaged you in lengthy commentary here even when we disagreed. I have not witnessed you being nasty or vitriolic, and why you would take that personally is probably your question to answer and not mine.<br /><br />Sometimes leaving things open to interpretation rather than closing the conversation outright is all a person has to offer.gracemcdunnoughhttp://phasinggrace.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36762068.post-62783965034704729222010-08-22T13:28:29.739-04:002010-08-22T13:28:29.739-04:00I think Fleep nailed it. It's important to re...I think Fleep nailed it. It's important to remember the power of choice. Each of us chooses what we focus on. Hope or despair, it's a decision we make each day when we get out of bed. <br /><br />And the people we choose to interact with can make all the difference. Virtual worlds give us completely new tools to help us reach out and touch other people's minds across the globe. That's an amazing gift, and future possibilities fill me with much hope. For more detailed thoughts on this idea, please see my blog: http://becunningandfulloftricks.com/2010/08/18/on-being-human/John Lesterhttp://twitter.com/Pathfindernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36762068.post-89435920680361228262010-08-22T12:28:36.854-04:002010-08-22T12:28:36.854-04:00"there is an air of nastiness, a spoiling of ..."there is an air of nastiness, a spoiling of trust, a tolerance for vitriol and a tendency to swing with a mighty force at anything that seems unfamiliar"<br /><br />Grace, that is as negative as I have seen on an SL blog. It is also extremely judgmental because you project a motivation behind other people's behavior ("anything that seems unfamiliar"), a projection that is mostly inaccurate. What is especially damaging about your comment is that it is so vaguely directed at SL at large.<br /><br />I have criticized you before and I am doing it once again and I can't help feeling that I am included in your comment. Am I being nasty and vitriolic? I have likely been so at times but only with people who are consistently so themselves and I don't think I have ever been that way with you. Am I "swinging with a mighty force"? That qualification leaves so much to interpretation that I can't even tell one way or the other. I'm certainly not talking though about something that "seems unfamiliar".<br /><br />Grace, your post could have been so positive without that particular statement. And I thank you for introducing me to the RSA Animate series. But you spoiled the whole thing and you ended up being an example for the exact thing that you are speaking against.Lem Skallhttp://lemskall.myopenid.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36762068.post-88184585927312328652010-08-22T10:12:25.924-04:002010-08-22T10:12:25.924-04:00Grace I always like your blog full of insights and...Grace I always like your blog full of insights and this video is very eye opening. Thanks!Herne Dikerhttp://twitter.com/HerneDikernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36762068.post-77315945315989527452010-08-22T04:25:59.716-04:002010-08-22T04:25:59.716-04:00I've gone through similar phases of disillusio...I've gone through similar phases of disillusionment lately, but seeing people in person in Boston was something of an antidote - we aren't alone, though others also become discouraged and grumpy in difficult times and we have to do our best to hold up even when hope seems thin and encourage ourselves and others to our better natures.<br /><br />Those who are mired in the negative and can't be diverted from it have to find their own way, you can't help those who won't help themselves and I am wary of spending too much time or emotional energy on "friends" that have lost sight of the bigger picture and are stuck in angry/hectoring/complaining mode. <br /> <br />There's too much work to be done and we can't afford to get bogged down the with the negative nellies. If the criticism isn't constructive, I'm not interested. It's easy to sit around and complain and monday morning quarterback, much harder to act and stay focused and continue to sort out where and when we can make positive contributions. I'd rather be hanging out with people doing the latter than the former.Fleep Tuquehttp://fleeptuque.comnoreply@blogger.com